The European Holocaust

by

R.E. Prindle

 

Prologue

Softly and tenderly

Jesus is calling, Sinners o sinners

Come home.

–Thompson

 

In order to tell of the horrendous European Holocaust it is necessary to give a background to the protagonists of the contest for Europe, the Jews and the Europeans.

In analyzing the background of the Jewish influence it is necessary to place the analysis in the Freudian concept of group psychology.  The issue here is the conflict between two distinct Weltanschauungs.  While the Jews portray themselves as of very ancient lineage the fact is that they rose as a dissident sect to the Astrological religion of the ancient world.   The Astrological religion certainly developed in ante-deluvian times being well developed by the time of the deluge itself in the Age of Leo.

As the Sumerian histories or legends tell us four ages of kings passed since the deluge, or Zodiacal Ages, before history essentially begins with the fifth king or Age of Aries.  Thus in the transition from the Age of Taurus ruled by ‘king’ Saturn in the Mesopotamian version, Cronus in the Greek, a man, most likely the Jewish ancestor Terah, refused to abandon the old king Saturn declaring that he was eternal, not changing with each new astrological age.

A body of followers grouped themselves around Terah producing their first resident genius, Abram, who they believed could confound the wisest and most learned of the astrologers.  According to the later Jewish writer, Josephus, Abram was the greatest astrologer of all time.

The old school disagreeing and being the stronger party declared Abram and his party cranks and drove them from Sumeria and on a restless wandering in search of redemption, hence the idea of the redeeming messiah.

The wandering group embraced the idea that the Jews hold today that they are smarter than anyone else while creating a myth of extreme antiquity predating everyone else.  Adam the Jew is portrayed as the first man.  Over the Ages they have quite simply appropriated the myths, legends or history of the people they live amongst in their millennial wanderings.  Hence the legend of the Wandering Jew.  Today for instance, they are preparing for their move to China, a new promised land.

Their insistence that they are superior in every respect to the peoples within which they reside is a source of perpetual conflict often resulting in their expulsion while frequently being accompanied by wholesale slaughter.

They have always been a thorn in the side of the civilization within which they reside.  Their goal is always to seize control of that civilization.  While thinking themselves superior, as they feed off the dominant culture, the facts contradict the fantasy causing bloody conflicts.  So the Jews developed a split psyche, one half dissociating itself from the other, a dual personality.

The belief they developed was that on top of the pyramid of creation was their god, Yahweh.  Beneath him were the angels and then half man, half god were the Jews. Beneath them came the humans and on down through the various forms of creation.  The humans were jealous of the semi-divine Jews hence hating them.  Thus we have the origins of anti-Semitism.  In other words a reaction to the over-weaning pride of the Jews.

For the other the Jews have created the image of themselves as a totally benevolent, kindly upright people who wouldn’t hurt a fly.  As Samuel Untermyer as spokesman for the People said in a speech delivered over the radio on 4/6/33 and reproduced in transcript in the NY Times the following day:

[The Jews], a proud, gentle, loyal, law abiding people, a people who have shed their blood for their Fatherland, and to whom Germany owes in large part its prosperity and its great scientists, educators, lawyers, physicians, poets, musicians, diplomats and philosophers, who are the backbone of its past cultural life.

The absurdity of these extravagant claims are manifest on the face of it.  The dissociation from reality is nearly psychotic, perhaps it is.  Inwardly the Jews know of the absurdity while that knowledge conflicts with the things they really are.  In defense then the Jews project their failings, their inability to live up to their fantasy on the other.  The Other consequently become hated.

Samuel Untermyer goes on to contrast the Other to his Jews:

…why dwell longer on this revolting picture of the ravages wrought by these ingrates [the Germans] and beasts of prey, animated by the loathsome motives of race hatred, bigotry and envy.

For the Jews are the aristocrats of the world.

So, Untermyer projects an image of what the Jews would be and then with split psyche projects Jewish short comings, how they actually behave, on the Other, for as he believes, the Jews are the aristocrats of the world, or in ancient terms, the Chosen People of God.  The Children of Light versus the Children of Darkness.  The Master Race.

The conflict was ever present and is ever present.  The Old Testament protests that the temple of Solomon was the premier wonder of the world.  But when the Jews were transported to Babylon they realized what back water people they were.  While entering Babylon through a gate that dwarfed their imagination, they were confronted by rows of palaces and temples that made their temple look like the stable in which Jesus was born.  This had a devastating effect on their minds giving the whole group a severe inferiority complex that could be countered only by preposterous claims of superiority.

This psychic split between wonders they thought they had created and wonders far exceeding theirs was a constant contradiction that had to be dealt with.  The Jews lived in denial while they were forced to belittle the achievements of the Other.  Hence we have Samuel Untermyer virtually denying a German contribution to their own culture.  This terrible dilemma bedevils their imagination.  There is no appeasing it.  By 1940 the Jews were taking credit for the creation of the America claiming to be the true Americans while men like Ford and Lindbergh were anti-American destroyers of the Democracy.

After disturbing the peace of Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Hellenistic States and Rome for two thousand odd years of the Age of Aries the Age of Pisces arrived.  The avatars of Aries were sent off to what the Greek astrologers called Far Tartary.  The Sun had entered Pisces.

I’m sure that many readers will ask, what is this Astrological nonsense?  A good and worthy question.  While today the stars have lost their mystical nature while ‘the third rock from the Sun’ is spoken of as a tiny insignificant speck in a fourteen billion year old universe, prior to this Scientific age the earth was seen as the center of what was a very small universe while the heavens mirrored the earth   ‘as above, so below.’  Thus astrology was a living presence for our ancestors.

The ancients studied the heavens which are nearly invisible above the smog of our cities today, over a long period of time, probably at least three or more Great Years.  The air being much clearer the naked eye could apparently detect what only the Hubble can see today.  The Great Year is not known to many today, and indeed, if intelligence was distributed back then as it is now there were not more than five or ten percent of the population capable of understanding the problem.

Understanding the problem, in a limited way, the intelligentsia had to keep it to themselves as the less intellectually gifted would have killed them for uttering nonsense.  The hoi polloi could only understand the exoteric while the esoteric had to remain hidden from them.  Thus the colleges of priests arose to mediate between the hoi polloi and the cognoscenti.  This is really the story of the European epic, Homer’s Illiad.

The transmission from of this knowledge generation to generation over a probable hundred thousand years was a great achievement, a difficulty that had to be surmounted, especially without writing and certainly without an adequately developed spoken language.  The ability to draw circles in the sand depicting the heavens and the earth must have been their only means, thus the significance of the mandala.

The Great year.  Today as then the fact is known only to the cognoscenti but available to the curious in dozens of books which is how I came across it.  Because the planet is tilted off center by twenty-three and a half degrees, over a period of twenty-five thousand years and some odd the North Pole traces a circle in the sky.  The North Star of today will in twelve thousand plus years be in Far Tartary while Vega now in Tartary will return to the position of the Pole Star.  But that will be Ages from now.

There can be no doubt that the Zodiac and the Ages are a fiction but the Great Year is real based on valid observation.  The ancient explanation of the Great Year is based on incomplete information.  Still, once set up far gone Great Years ago the fiction was taken literally and acted upon by all peoples from China to Europe with the exception of the Jews.  Thus when the Sun passed from Taurus to Aries the Jews refused to acknowledge the world wide system living through the Age of Aries with a Taurian and/or Saturnian mentality.

Inevitably Aries edged into the Age of Pisces.  The world began to adapt while even the Jews in part if not in whole acknowledged that the Age was changing even though their god, Saturn/Yahweh remained eternal.

Thus Jesus heralded the New Piscean Dispensation declaring the Old Taurian Dispensation null and void.

Now, during the Age of Aries the Jews had been dispersed throughout world including China, India and naturally what became the Roman Empire.  The Chinese colonies were eventually absorbed and disappeared while the Indian colonies have existed as very distant memories.

 

In the Roman Empire as Jews were part of the metaphysical speculation of the Mediterranean Basin while being the odd fellow outside the pale they were part of the psychological whole and prospered accordingly while they dispersed themselves in every province but still owing primary allegiance to the Jewish State within the Empire.  Thus a Rome and Jerusalem warfare existed for dominance as they would later challenge the European Peoples in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries AD.  Just as the Roman Empire was involved in a destructive Jewish War from 66 AD to about 135 AD so Europe was engulfed in a hideous murderous Jewish War from 1789 to 1950 in its first phase.  The War has changed faces since then but a Jewish War against what they call Whiteness continues and will continue until either the Jews or the Whites are wiped from the face of the Earth as with the Amalekites of old.

Thus Jesus who was merely a Jewish prophet in the mold of Jeremiah challenged the structure of the Jewish dream and had to die.  The Jews of the Sanhedrin ‘relaxed’ Jesus to the secular authorities, much as the Rosenbergs would later be ‘relaxed’ to the US authorities, as the phrase was in the Spanish Inquisition, who per request executed the Jew Jesus.  Religious authorities don’t kill they employ others to do it for them.

The Jews then began to persecute, that is kill, the Jesusites on the order of the Amalekites.  By some perverted historical accident Saul who was born again as Paul rescued the Jewish avatar of emerging Pisces universalizing him as the avatar for the whole of Europe.  The Jew Jesus became the universal Christ figure when he displaced the successor to the Arien Age Zeus, Dionysus.  Not as Jesus the Jew but after the Greek Christ has Christianity been named and taken its form.

Hating Jesus as a renegade Jew the Jews had no more love for him as the Christ.  Hence the deep hatred of Christianity existing to this day and Christian Europeans by the Jews.

The open war between Rome and Jerusalem broke out in 66 AD, having nothing to do with Jesus who was still unknown outside Judaea, continuing for nearly 70 years of incredible brutality and savagery no different from the abysmal horrors inflicted on Europeans by them during the hideous European Holocaust from 1914 to about 1950.

Defeated, Jerusalem was razed with the Jews being forbidden to set foot in the ruins.  Of course the Mesopotamian community which had refused to return to Judaea, possibly larger than the Judaean faction, was unaffected until they were expelled around the year 1000 AD.  Numbers of those joined their fellows in Spain making that unfortunate country the largest Jewish community in the world for perhaps 500 years.

By another incredible stroke of luck the Christian Catholic Church awarded the Jews the greatest boon any people on Earth has ever enjoyed.  They awarded the Jews a monopoly on usury.   Christians were forbidden the right to charge interest.  Thus for nearly two thousand years Jews had the sole right to explore the mysteries of compound interest and the absolute power thus conveyed to them by the Popes.  Oh, glory hallelujah!  With emancipation in 1789 came the destruction of Europe through usury.

Their reliance on usury got the Jews into constant trouble because while they were successfully exploiting the various peoples they in their turn resented their exploitation often visiting their resentment on their tormentors by physical means.  Thus a species of warfare existed between Europeans and Jews that was irreconcilable.  The contest often resulted in Jews being expelled from the various countries.  England in 1290, France a few years later at the beginning of the 14th century and as the Jews moved East various German principalities.

The Jews moved further East into Poland and the sparsely settled areas of what became the Pale of Settlement which Russia annexed in the eighteenth century.

The defining moment in the conflict with the Europeans came in 1492 when Ferdinand and Isabella expelled the Jews from Spain.  The peasants had groaned too long under the exactions of the Jews as tax farmers on the one hand and usurers on the other.  This had gone on for hundreds of years.

Nevertheless the Jews characteristically saw only one side of the question, what they considered injustice to themselves.  They consequently swore revenge on Europe as Christianity as they phrased it which meant, as with the Amalekites, genocide.  The only question was how and when.  The Jews had patience, they could wait.

The how was made difficult by the close supervision of the Catholic Church that allowed them little latitude.  During the years of the formative civilization of Europe their situation probably seemed hopeless but as time does not stand still while the European mind was developing its qualities the future may have been dimly perceived as religious and political institutions were slowly being altered during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.  And then…it happened.  The French Revolution declared that all men were brothers so they emancipated the Jews removing them from the jurisdiction of the Catholic Church.

The condition of emancipation was essentially that the Jews abandon their peculiar customs and become one with the  great European family.

Not likely, but at that time a division was created between the ‘enlightened’ Western European Jews and the benighted Eastern European Jews.  While Western Jews basked in the scientific West the Eastern Jews unaffected by Western developments remained sunk in the Medieval Age.  The true Jewish society developed in the East emerging at the end of the nineteenth century modified as Zionism.  There was no genius in the East although they were the ‘fabled’ Ashkenazi Jews.

The requirements of European society changed from one of landed wealth to one of money wealth.  The fate of the old European landed aristocracy was sealed as they were slow or unable to embrace the new money economy governed by usury otherwise known as compound interest.  Cut off from the concepts of usury for nearly two thousand years they had little or no understanding of what borrowing on a compounded 43% rate meant.

The Jews were at home in usury hence as the nineteenth century developed the Jews transferred the wealth of Europeans to themselves and rose from pariahs to equals to potential or real masters.

The struggle was certainly not over as the end of the nineteenth century neared but to the discerning observer the future was far from obscure.

 

Continued in Part II:  Europeans and Americans

 

Exhuming Bob 25:

Bob And Sam

by

R.E. Prindle

Shepard, Sam: The Rolling Thunder Logbook, 1977, Sanctuary Publishing.

      Sometime in the mid-seventies, possibly in 1976 Paul Simon wrote in one of his lyrics:  I don’t think this stuff is funny anymore.  Coincidentally at the same time as I surveyed my record store of a Saturday morning the same thought occurred to me.  Things had been overdone.  In one bat of an eyelash the whole thing got old.

 

Bert Williams In Blackface

    This was not case with Bob Dylan who in the waning months of 1975 put the greatest clown act New England had ever seen on the road.  The Rolling Thunder Revue; or as it might alternatively have been named:  The New Bob Dylan Minstrels.  One purpose of the Revue seems to have been to spring the convicted triple murderer and ex-boxer Hurricane Carter from jail.  That didn’t come until the very end.

     Along the way Dylan wanted to film a sort of existential movie that would later be released as Renaldo and Clara.  Working from some strange chaos theory Dylan had no actors, no script, no-nothing.  Needing some sort of guiding hand he commanded the actor, cowboy, playwright Sam Shepard to attend to his writing needs.  Sam then wrote what he called a log of the experience called the Rolling Thunder Logbook.

     On the first reading I didn’t think Sam put much into it but the pictures  were good.  Still there was the nagging feeling that I might have missed something.  On the second reading the logbook assumed more significance.  It’s kind of impressionistic.  It’s not a narrative; like the title says its sort of like a ship’s logbook.   The impressions sort of pile up until you have a definite impression.  I don’t know if that’s what Sam intended but that’s the way it worked with me.

     Bob being the kind of powerful show biz personality he is didn’t bother to negotiate terms with Sam; he didn’t even bother to call himself; his agent or stooge  or whatever interrupted the life of Shepard to tell him Dylan wanted him in New England.  Sam doesn’t mention any terms, or indeed any payment.  He just dropped everything, literally, and drove East.  Did I mention he was in California?  Well, he was; he was in the process of moving. 

     Bob tries pretty hard to cultivate that elusive, mysterious image and he succeeded with Sam who couldn’t locate him for a few days after he got there.  Bob probably wanted to accustom him to the menagerie before he showed his face.  Even then Sam didn’t have any guidelines he just expected Sam to free lance a few lines of dialogue if at any time he saw the cameras running.  The film crew was more disorganized than Dylan if that were possible.

     What was it all about anyway?

It Takes A Worried Man- Sam Shepard

     As we should be aware 1976 was the two hundreth anniversary celebration of the American Revolution.  But there were  a number of conflicting revolutions running simultaneously.  There was the revolt of the Matriarchy, what Eric Foner calls the Unfinished Revolution which was the replacement of Whites by Negroes and of course the perpetual revolution of the Jews against mankind, not to mention the revolution of the gay crowd.  Bob as we all know is Jewish so one may reasonably ask why he chose New England for his chaotic Marx Brothers routine on the occasion of the Yankee Revolution around the new England sites such as Bunker Hill?  Could he have been thumbing his nose at America?  Well, it does look suspicious.

     As Sam notes the crew made it a point to visit Plymouth Rock and the replica of the Mayflower which sacred symbols of  pre-immigration America they reviled all but pissing on the Rock.  The faux American cowboy, Elliott Adnopoz was swinging from the yardarm of the Mayflower.  Y’all know Elliott as the yodelin’ cowboy Ramblin’ Jack Elliott o’ course.  For the rest they pissed and farted their way across New England carousing and corrupting as they went.  Of course it might just have been New England exercising the gang’s Rock n’ Roll genes, no more than that.  Sam kept his discontent sotto voce by which I mean between the lines.  Bob, with his need for conflict invited not only his old flame Joan Baez and his new flame Joni Mitchell but his wife Sarah playing each against each.  Baez who grows more Mexican with each passing year seems willing to put up with whatever Bob does.  Shortly after the tour Sara came downstairs one morning to find Bob dandling a strange beauty on his knee for breakfast.  Well, you know, she threw in the tower after that, as, who wouldn’t?  Bob seemed to be perfectly dismayed by this untoward turn of events.  ‘Women in my family just don’t divorce.’  He whined uncomprehendingly.  Well, at least, not without due provocation.

Joni Mitchell Looking Out Her Window

     That leaves Joni Mitchell.  She’s apparently been stewing about her treatment for thirty-five years.  She just recently expressed herself by saying in effect that Dylan is just a god-damned phony.  Well, Bob can always go join Joanie in that bomb shelter in Viet Nam.  They can exchange rings made of the fuselages of American fighter planes, if they haven’t already.  So, how sincere is their devotion to this great land of the once free and no longer brave?  It would seem their loyalties lie elsewhere.

     In my own obtuseness, quivering in my own psychological bomb shelter, I never saw Bob as a revolutionary in those far off days but then I was just listening to records, I didn’t know anything about him; boy, I sure have remedied that situation.

     Back in those palmy days of the early sixties before racial and religious animosities had reached their present prominence I don’t know that anyhbody really thought of Dylan as a Jew.  Certainly the name Dylan is not Jewish and I’m not sure how many people would have known Zimmerman was.  Or, that they would have cared.  In those days everyone cheered when Israel won one of those too frequent wars.  Now, though, one has to put Bob’s religious affiliation up front.  Make no mistake, he’s a fundamentalist, believes the Bible is the literal word of god.  Orthodox.  Chabad Lubavitcher even.  Thinks the universe is fifty-seven hundred years old like his deceased mentor Rabbi Schneerson.   Swear to g-d.

     Must have picked it all up from Rebbe Rueben who came West from Brooklyn to Hibbing to indoctrinate him in Lubavitcher lore for his Bar Mitzvah.  Like Bob said, he learned what he was supposed to learn.  He very cleverly inserted the stuff into all those songs too.

     Bob broke his mind in the excesses of the sixties, that high mercury sound he was seeking was the result of all those amphetamines he was shooting back then.  Andy Warhol had his boy pegged.

     In the late sixties and early seventies Bob had to rebuild his personality and he rebuilt it around his religion.  His Mom was real proud of the way he had his Bible open on a stand in his living room so he could jump up and check it as the occasion arose.

     Then as he got back on his feet he aligned himself with Meyer Kahane’s violent extremist revolutionary Jewish Defense League carrying a couple of JDL thugs around with him as bodyguards.  Maybe his Jewish revolutionary mode was getting too obvious so in ’77 he began hanging out with Jews For Jesus and the Christian Vinyard Fellowship organization.  Once that clouded the picture he reverted back to his Lubavitchers where he has been since.

     So on the Rolling thunder tour one may be excused for thinking that he was in his revolutionary phase.    Sam Shepard doesn’t mention it but his experience left a very bad taste in his mouth which he expresses with as much force as Joni Mitchell really has.

     On the tour Bob did the strange thing of wearing white makeup which has remained a mystery.  It shouldn’t be really.  Remember the tour was to end in a successful attempt to free a Black man while the Black boxer Muhammed Ali was unstage at the Garden.  A Garden party a la Ricky Nelson, get it?  The Revue was actually a parody of the Minstrel show of what Greil Marcus would call the old weird America.  In the old Minstrel shows the White actor wore black face in imitation of Black people.   This may sound strange to you but Jews don’t consider themselves White notwithstanding their pale complexions they consider themselves Jews and goys as White.  So, in disguising himself in White Face he was parodying the old Black Minstrel shows while mocking his ultra-White New England audience.

     Bob Dylan was having the time of his life.  The joke was on the Honkies.  Funny, huh?

     As noted, the keynote of the tour was the final concert at Madison Square Garden at Christmas where he took on America over the issue of  the Black Hurricane Carter and won.  Now, compare that Christmas show with the 2009 release of Bob’s Christmas album.  Seemingly done straight it also mocks Whites.  In Bob’s video for the song It Must Be Santa Claus you may have noticed that the audience showed minimal diversity.  The airheads were all White.  Bob comes prancing through wearing a lank blonde White girl’s wig, climbs into a balcony and stands looking down his nose in his wig at us all.  It’s great.  Nobody gets it.   There is something happening here but you don’t know what it is, do you, Mr. Jo-o-o-nes.

     Jewish power vs. American power, make no mistake.

     Sam jumped ship before the end of the tour, he’d had enough, but he was there for the Garden party.  He can’t even force himself to dissimulate a complimentary attitude as he did at the beginning of the Minstrel show.  And then the final confrontation between the playwright and the singer.

     At this point is is clear that the Rolling Thunder tour is something Sam wished he hadn’t gone on and an experience he preferred to forget.

     Shepard closes with a chapter concerning the opening of his play The Geography Of A Horse Dreamer.  I don’t know the play but it may have been based on Rolling Thunder.  In the play Sam names the horse Sara D.  Dylan is in New York at the time wanting to see the play.  He wants to make his entrance in company with Sam.  Sam writes:

          ..so I’m in the hotel lobby waiting for the Cadillac convertible to haul us over to the theatre.  The big boxcar camper pulls up outside and Dylan hops out.  My stomach does a full gainer as I see him approaching the hotel.  The idea of him sitting in the audience is more like a nightmare than a blessing…He pauses at one of these signs (reading signs in the lobby) long enough for me to scuttle past him out into the street and hail a cab.  It’s bad enough knowing that he’ll be there without having to ride there with him in the same car.

     So not only was the tour distasteful to Sam’s sensibilities but the experience of first hand acquaintance with Bob has also left a bitter taste.  Well he isn’t the only one.  The evening of the opening of Sam’s show is not going to improve relations.

     …the so-called curtain is being held up for Dylan’s late arrival.  He shows up plastered, along with Neuwirth, Kemp, Sara and Gary Shafner.  They take up a whole row.

     So whatever the cause of the conflict Dylan is reciprocating  his disrespect fully.  He means to sabotage Sam’s show and then leave early too.

     At intermission Sam doesn’t see Bob so he hopes he’s left the theatre.  No such luck.  Dylan comes out of the toilet.

     He sees me standing there and pauses as though trying to bring certain thoughts into focus.  “Hey, Sam, what happens to this guy in the play anyway?’  I’m dumbfounded for a reply but come out with something like, “That’s the reason for seeing the second act.”  He stares at the floor, his knees shifting slightly as though he’s about to go into a nose dive.

     “Hey, how come you named that horse in the play Sara D?”

      “That’s the name of a racing dog in England.”  It suddenly cuts through me that it’s also the name of his wife.

     “I mean it’s the name of a greyhound.  A real greyhound.  You know the kind that race around the track.”

     He smiles and shuffles through the door, almost making a left turn into the light booth.

     Apparently Dylan didn’t find that answer any more satisfactory than I would have.  Something is going on here, isn’t it?

     As the play draws to its end Dylan makes his move.  Shameless.  Pure chutzpah immersed in chocolate sauce.

     Dylan stands in the back row.  “Wait a minute!”   Who’s he yelling to?  The actors?  “Wait a second! why’s he get the shot?  He shouldn’t get that shot!  The other guy should get it!”  Lou Kemp is trying to haul him back down in his seat….

     Dylan is struggling to free himself from Kemp’s hammerlock grip.  Neuwirth is telling him to shut up…Finally the Sam Peckinpah sequence begins, with shotguns and catsup all over the stage.  Dylan leaps up again.  “I DON’T HAVE TO WATCH THIS!  I DIDN’T COME HERE TO WATCH THIS!

     Apparently the Rolling Thunder tour didn’t end until Sam had written this play and run it by Bob.  Dylan didn’t like the play any better than Shepard liked the tour.  Hard feelings everywhere.

     Apparently Bob used people much too roughly.   He managed to either blow off a number of people immediately following such as Shepard, Jack Elliott, Neuwirth, the maligned Larry Sloman and probably the whole film crew while Joni Mitchell has weighed in thirty-five years on.  We have yet to hear from a number of other people, most notably Roger McGuinn.

      Bob managed to trash everybody including the USA with his Minstrel show for the 200th anniversary year.  Which revolutions was he leading?  I don’t think this stuff is funny anymore, do you?

 

Bob and Joan, Joan and Bob?